new van

Thanks RMD , Thanks for the advice , The weight is within the limits of the Prado and the payload has been increased due to the suspension upgrade, which I wont need . I've done heaps of outback roads , but not with a caravan. Look forward to the adventure. Cheers Uppy

Well, how heavy was the Easytrail which is off the menu and I would guess is of similar weight. Being simply within a towing capacity is not a wise way of viewing towing limits. My vehicle can tow 3 tons, So Claimed, but it would be stupid to do it. No way would I tow over 2 tons. Tail wagging the dog springs to mind. Being heavier than absolutely needed means less and less of road ability if near bogged or having to manoeuvre it or get it through washouts etc.

That's a long wait for a van I personally wouldn't wait that long and get something else but anyway what is the off road towing capacity of the vehicle it's usually less than on road rating.
Looks like the vans tare is 2.4t which is quite often less than what they actually are which makes a difference especially if you get pulled over and weighed as you are responsible for it. Add on all food stocks, clothing water, and anything else you add, it's not going to be very light and will most probably push you around creating an uncomfortable jerky ride especially off and road and over stress the drive train good luck.

Thanks Batts. The Tare weight on the Snowy River SRC19 is1979kg, ATM is 2500kg with a ball weight of155 kg. The van I've ordered, will have a suspension upgrade (independent). These weights are all within STD 2016 Prado, my car has a 3500 kg GVM. The payload on the van was 400kg, that has increase to 500 due to the upgrade on the suspension. Regarding the drive train, I've met a lot of people who are towing these weights with the same model Prado to me without any problems. I would like to say thanks for taking the time to reply to my post.

The Prado has a GVM of 2990kg (not 3500 unless you have the GVM upgrade).
No way I would take a vehicle near its GVMor GCM on any gravel or rough roads for any considerable distance.
I drive a 2021 Prado and tow a van with a typical weighbridge weight of 2200kg (ATM 2.5T) comfortably (5000kg GCM) over a weighbridge.
I'm with RMD.
You will get away with if short term, but long term you are looking for a bruising near the GCM.

No worries when I typed it in SR 19 came up not SRC.

Sorry I should have mentioned my Prado has a upgraded GVM 3500 kg

Uppy, you do realise that if your GVM is increased, the GCM stays the same and your towing capacity is reduced by the GVM increase, ie my Patrol was GVM 3000kg, increased to 3500kg, GCM remained the same 6500kg, so towing capacity reduced to 3000kg.

Hi John,

How does increasing the GVM, decrease your towing capacity?

Macca.

yep I`m confused

John's explination was pretty easy to understand but still some people can be confused by it which is what happens sometimes.
Your gross combined max stays the same so the van and vehicle combined is not allowed to exceed that.
So you increase the vehicle's gvm by 500kg for eg that then reduces the maximum towing weight by the same amount. It can be a trap that catches the unwary out. It should be a legal obligation that a company that does a gvm upgrade should explain that to the customer so it is understood. I don't know but are the vehicle's mod plated with the upgrade as well so the owner car can clearly read and the tow bar should be plated as well so it can be clearly seen. That's probably in the to hard basket.
G.C.M. is often overlooked because lots of people new to towing have no idea it exists or what it means. A driver of any vehicle has a responsibility to know the vehicle's capacity which should be taught when learning how to drive when your young so it always stays with you when needed.

The other thing that catches people out is for eg if you have a 3.5t towing capacity you can't actually tow 3.5t.

Uppy and McLaren, I think Batt's answered your questions, but I will post what I was given when the GVM upgrade was carried out. It used to be that the GCM would increase in line with the GVM increase, but that was stopped years ago and I think you will find Qld have gone back to the old way, increase GVM, increase in GCM, but far more engineering items need to be upgraded to allow the GCM to be upgraded. As I am in Vic, I am not up to date on Qld regs.

John & Uppy,

There must still be a disparity between states. I am in Vic. I had my 200 Series GX GVM upgraded to initially 3,600 kgs this was later recertified to 3,800 kgs. No reduction in towing capacity listed on the certificate or the Compliance “plate”.



Macca.

Macca, as can be seen in the attached pic of my upgraded Compliance plate, no mention of GCM, only GVM increase. I was advised about GCM staying the same as well as shown in the documentation I was given, as shown in the post. I think you will find that your GCM is still the same as before the GVM upgrade, 6850kg, so your towing capacity will be 3050kg, if you are towing over that weight, I would be checking with VICROADS.

Quote "No reduction in towing capacity listed on the certificate or the Compliance 'plate'."

If there is no mention of an increased GCM on the documentation, then surely there is no change from the original GCM.

Hi John,

I did not have a GCM Upgrade, just a GVM Upgrade. My Towing Capacity is still 3,500 kgs. as listed in the specs.

I still cannot find anything that states a GVM upgrade will reduce the towing capacity. Can you provide a link to this?

Macca.

Macca, I have looked and have found the info below, all very confusing. At present all I can go on is what I was supplied when the GVM upgrade was carried out by ATOC and that is the the GCM remains the same at 6500kg, if I am fully loaded to 3500kg, I can only tow a maximum of 3000kg. Have a read of the linked articles, you will be as confused as I am now.
Qld GCM increase news
GCM article
GCM Info

Hi John,

I see where you are coming from now. The Vehicles actual maximum braked towing capacity has not been reduced, however your ability to remain under the legal GCM when your towing vehicle is loaded up to its new maximum GVM has been reduced. You can still tow 3,500 kgs as long as you do not exceed your GCM of 6,500 Kgs. You made it sound like you could not tow 3,500 kgs, when you still can, as long as you stay under the GCM.

Macca.

Some of the rules from state to state seem confusing but if you just comply with the vehicle's specs you will have no issue. Also if you pay to get say a GVM upgrade done don't assume that applies to anything else as you still have to stay within the GCM so that may be a shock/horror to some that the towing capacity is now reduced which had they done some research before hand they may have known that already. Look up Mark Oastler he explains how your massive van can reduce the vehicle's payload as well so you may have to compromise somewhere to stay legal.
For me and my family 20yrs ago our first big trip of around 7,000km over 3 months we bought a 16'6" pop top van had a reverse cycle split system A/C fitted. I towed less weight and have a lot less wind drag so it's more economical. We had a 4.2 t combined weight getting 16lph at the legal speed limits in turn a don't hold up traffic and annoy truckies trying to make a living on the road.
It's the same with a truck wether you're towing a short single axle trailer or a long tri axle trailer the truck still has a max towing capacity and a GCM to stay within but some caravaners seem to have trouble understanding things as they are more focused on the trip and care less about the set up that is going to get them there and back.
Do you really need to tow a massive heavy van burning lots of fuel trying to look like part the in crowd or can you do the same thing for a lot cheaper and still have a comfortable set up ? hell yes you can you don't need to look like a millionaire in front of your friends and other travelers you don't know.

Many quote that the GCM is the combined weight of the tug added to the weight of the van. Can anyone please quote where this is written in the legislation. The only definition I can find in legislation is significantly different from that. The only thing I can find comes from the Vehicle Standard (Australian Design Rule Definitions and Vehicle Categories) 2005 . The definition from that link is pasted below:

GROSS COMBINATION MASS - value specified for the vehicle by the
‘Manufacturer’ as being the maximum of the sum of the ‘Gross Vehicle Mass’ of
the drawing vehicle plus the sum of the ‘Axle Loads’ of any vehicle capable of
being drawn as a trailer.

That means that when you are weighing a rig to ascertain its total weight to see if the rig exceeds the GCM, the weight you must use for the tug in your calculation is its GVM, not the weighbridge weight of the tug with the van coupled.

Unless there is something else in legislation that contradicts the ADR definition, that certainly means that any aftermarket increase to the GVM of a vehicle is going to possible decrease the size of the trailer you can tow.

It also means that for a standard unmodified vehicle, where the combined weight of a maximum loaded tug and a maximum loaded van exceed the GCM, you can not trade off weight in the tug to allow you to tow a van that weighs the maximum specified towing limit for the tug.

AH, SO, that makes it a YANGTSE RIVER Caravan I suppose. Not sure how it becomes Snowy, must be to fool Aussies!

I actually don't mind the off road limitations so much as the reference to having to deal with the manufacturers for warranty issues on appliances etc. My reading of the Consumer Laws suggest the supplier has to warrant the products but the consumer can choose to go directly to the manufacturer if they wish. I have attached a cut n paste from the consumer guide to businesses.

"Dealing with the manufacturer"
"If your business sold a product or service to a consumer, you cannot refuse to help them by sending them directly to the manufacturer or importer for a remedy. This applies even where the fault was caused by the manufacturer.

You can approach the manufacturer or importer directly, however you will only be entitled to recover costs from them. You cannot demand a repair, replacement or refund from the manufacturer."